I respect your devotion to the Donald, but if you had read transcripts of his rally speeches as well as interviews on various media (typically conservative outlets) besides watching big media events on video you would see he referred to Jackson several times, both lauding him (even going so far as musing Jackson was upset he couldn't prevent the Civil War even though he was dead long before the crisis). Trump often compared himself to former presidents, but only really held Jackson as comparable to himself. No small feat for Jackson.
I don't especially put down Jackson for his Indian views (he had other faults and a lot of virtues as well). Not many people know even Benjamin Franklin was an Indian Fighter at one time, and in an early conception of Manifest Destiny (not yet branded as such but tied to expected providential expansion of white civilization countrywide) he even mused on several occasions it may be better if they were simply exterminated and put out of their misery.
But then even Theodore Roosevelt echoed Jackson when he stated curtly that "“I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are the dead Indians, but I believe nine out of every 10 are,” Roosevelt said during a January 1886 speech in New York. “And I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth.”
And in a side note if you saw the recent PBS documentary on the creator of the Wizard of Oz books he called for extermination as well. It is a long and sad tale.
I don't mind civil discussion of views but do your homework first. Otiose questions don't advance anything.
Charles, it is amazing. You are not aware that you are referring to exactly ONE event and ONE small uttering of Donald Trump, and that you are completely falling for FAKE NEWS that Donald Trump allegedly was lauding Andew Jackson repeatedly all the time ....... which he wasn't.
I have no "devotion for Donald", but a devotion for truth, and you simply got the facts wrong. Terribly wrong. And you are calling me for doing my homework?!
I really consider to stop commenting here. The feeling is growing that it makes no sense.
Hmm, Rick Santorum is right. "There was nothing here" in the sense he immediately explains: "there isn’t much Native American culture in American culture." It is only true. He does not talk of an "empty continent". That is not what he said. He is talking of culture, and the culture of the evolving America did indeed take over almost nothing from the Indians' culture.
And I don't think that "the colonial generation did look to Native groups as examples of alternatives to European-style monarchy in actual living practice." Or, if they looked, they only looked, but did not take over much.
The Federalist Papers always cite ancient Greek and Roman historians to give examples why the constitution should be written this way or that way. Can't remember of any Indian example.
And even if there were one or two examples, it is not enough to debunk Rick Santorum. Rick Santorum did not say, that there is no such influence at all, but he said: "there isn’t much Native American culture in American culture."
Umm, were you in a coma last few years? He was obsessed with him. He described him as his hero many times and said how much of a fan of his he was and how they were so alike. He only mentioned Reagan and Lincoln once or twice just to immediately claim how "so many say I am far greater than them". He hears a lot of voices in his head like that, like how he really won the election.
And while I respect Jason's qualifying the Native American Confederation model was just one influence on the Founding Fathers heavyweights like Washington, Jefferson, Franklin and others all acknowledged it as a prime example of how they could unite the Colonies under shared principles of governance.
Santorum's full speech plus similar statements regarding how immigrant waves merely assimilated into the "Melting Pot" of American culture without any real contributions posits the 'Manifest Destiny' model of claiming a virgin world from Jamestown on Alaska.
Thank you Charles, so please give me some links to speeches of Trump in text or youtube (with minute:second), so that I can verify your claim. I read newspapers all the time and watched many speeches of Trump and he NEVER mentioned Andrew Jackson once, as far as I can say.
I have not read Santorum's speech, only the citations above, but these few citations are enough to judge that Santorum did not do what you claim. Santorum openly admits that there may have been some influences, but not many. And this is only true. You are constructing another history fairy tale, just only the other way round. Not good.
For the rest, see the blog page. Thank you.
Is it possible that you are not a trustworthy person?
Having been born on a Northern tribal reservation land and then relocating after college to a second (Southern) tribal reservation I know they take pride in their many contributions, that go far past the usual sops of their political example and the weird fact the Plains tribes used every bit of the Buffalo (a strange thing to admire as we butchered them to near extinction - and not for their meat but as a strategy to starve them the Indians to death).
The Confederacy didn't come into play in the Federalist Papers or elsewhere as the subsequent arguments dealt with the fait accompli of the constitution and how it should be implemented rather than it's influences. Otherwise there would have been some fun talk about Masonic and Deist influences.
BTW, it was Jackson who supposedly infamously said (or at least re-tweeted Gen. Sheridan) ‘The only good Indians I ever saw were dead’, honed (according to Dee Browne) into an American aphorism, ‘The only good Indian is a dead Indian’. The Cherokees called Jackson “Indian killer”; the Creek called him “Sharp Knife.” A slave owner, Jackson spoke about Native Americans as if they were an inferior group of people. “Established in the midst of a superior race,” he said of the Cherokee, “they must disappear.” You might want to look up 'Trail of Tears', as well.
Charles, when I google this, I always get information about an event, one event, where Trump sat in front of an image of Andrew Jackson. He also uttered some words about Andrew Jackson when asked. That is all.
I conclude: You where wrong that Trump talked about Andrew Jackson all the time. You have no idea, as it seems. It is sad. You seem to be filled with propaganda. I am sorry to say this. You should start to listen to various speeches of Trump, just in order to realize why this man had so much success. There is a reason for this. And it is not Andrew Jackson. Even if Trump is your enemy, you should have an appropriate picture of him. Especially then.
Concerning the Indians: See the Blog post, not here. It is another hoax. Bended history. Minor contributions yes, the big thing, no. I am sorry.
Strange how hypocritical we can be, we are the first to yell genocide at the Turks recently. And what we did to the indigenous population of North America is forgotten. We basically killed of an entire race of people. And this MF makes lite of it!
Impossible to forget the genocide of north American indigeneous as it is embellished and fed daily to our public school and university population as group think. The truth about the history of North America is much more nuanced than either side of the genocide claim admits.
If it was a genocide then it wasn't a very effective one, and the main depopulation event and destruction of indigenous culture was the 100 years between the introduction of European disease in 1500 and the British settlers starting after 1620 when they found deserted camps and fragmented warring tribes eager for alliance against neighbors. Far from the idyllic scenes being pushed on our unsuspecting young and trusting parents too busy surviving to notice.
Jeff, great point, and some things I did not consider, I think i was just trying to point out we took this country from the people who lived here before us.
I respect your devotion to the Donald, but if you had read transcripts of his rally speeches as well as interviews on various media (typically conservative outlets) besides watching big media events on video you would see he referred to Jackson several times, both lauding him (even going so far as musing Jackson was upset he couldn't prevent the Civil War even though he was dead long before the crisis). Trump often compared himself to former presidents, but only really held Jackson as comparable to himself. No small feat for Jackson.
I don't especially put down Jackson for his Indian views (he had other faults and a lot of virtues as well). Not many people know even Benjamin Franklin was an Indian Fighter at one time, and in an early conception of Manifest Destiny (not yet branded as such but tied to expected providential expansion of white civilization countrywide) he even mused on several occasions it may be better if they were simply exterminated and put out of their misery.
But then even Theodore Roosevelt echoed Jackson when he stated curtly that "“I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are the dead Indians, but I believe nine out of every 10 are,” Roosevelt said during a January 1886 speech in New York. “And I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth.”
And in a side note if you saw the recent PBS documentary on the creator of the Wizard of Oz books he called for extermination as well. It is a long and sad tale.
I don't mind civil discussion of views but do your homework first. Otiose questions don't advance anything.
Charles, it is amazing. You are not aware that you are referring to exactly ONE event and ONE small uttering of Donald Trump, and that you are completely falling for FAKE NEWS that Donald Trump allegedly was lauding Andew Jackson repeatedly all the time ....... which he wasn't.
I have no "devotion for Donald", but a devotion for truth, and you simply got the facts wrong. Terribly wrong. And you are calling me for doing my homework?!
I really consider to stop commenting here. The feeling is growing that it makes no sense.
Hmm, Rick Santorum is right. "There was nothing here" in the sense he immediately explains: "there isn’t much Native American culture in American culture." It is only true. He does not talk of an "empty continent". That is not what he said. He is talking of culture, and the culture of the evolving America did indeed take over almost nothing from the Indians' culture.
And I don't think that "the colonial generation did look to Native groups as examples of alternatives to European-style monarchy in actual living practice." Or, if they looked, they only looked, but did not take over much.
The Federalist Papers always cite ancient Greek and Roman historians to give examples why the constitution should be written this way or that way. Can't remember of any Indian example.
And even if there were one or two examples, it is not enough to debunk Rick Santorum. Rick Santorum did not say, that there is no such influence at all, but he said: "there isn’t much Native American culture in American culture."
It is only true.
Well, Jackson was Trump's favorite president and role model, so.... .
Was he? I always thought Ronald Reagan was. I heard him several times recalling Ronald Reagan, but never, really never Andrew Jackson.
Umm, were you in a coma last few years? He was obsessed with him. He described him as his hero many times and said how much of a fan of his he was and how they were so alike. He only mentioned Reagan and Lincoln once or twice just to immediately claim how "so many say I am far greater than them". He hears a lot of voices in his head like that, like how he really won the election.
And while I respect Jason's qualifying the Native American Confederation model was just one influence on the Founding Fathers heavyweights like Washington, Jefferson, Franklin and others all acknowledged it as a prime example of how they could unite the Colonies under shared principles of governance.
Santorum's full speech plus similar statements regarding how immigrant waves merely assimilated into the "Melting Pot" of American culture without any real contributions posits the 'Manifest Destiny' model of claiming a virgin world from Jamestown on Alaska.
Thank you Charles, so please give me some links to speeches of Trump in text or youtube (with minute:second), so that I can verify your claim. I read newspapers all the time and watched many speeches of Trump and he NEVER mentioned Andrew Jackson once, as far as I can say.
I have not read Santorum's speech, only the citations above, but these few citations are enough to judge that Santorum did not do what you claim. Santorum openly admits that there may have been some influences, but not many. And this is only true. You are constructing another history fairy tale, just only the other way round. Not good.
For the rest, see the blog page. Thank you.
Is it possible that you are not a trustworthy person?
Anything is possible, but you would have a safer bet with Santorum and Trump's untruthfulness.
.As much as I like live to do research I suggest you just Google Trump Andrew Jackson American Indians. Not difficult.
This one link I'll supply gratis involves the tie-in to a reaction from a Native American citizen.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/4/27/2027846/-National-Congress-of-American-Indians-calls-Santorum-an-unhinged-and-embarrassing-racist
But while handing out your class assignments you can start the Confederacy angle with this:
https://www.upenn.edu/gazette/0107/gaz09.html
Having been born on a Northern tribal reservation land and then relocating after college to a second (Southern) tribal reservation I know they take pride in their many contributions, that go far past the usual sops of their political example and the weird fact the Plains tribes used every bit of the Buffalo (a strange thing to admire as we butchered them to near extinction - and not for their meat but as a strategy to starve them the Indians to death).
The Confederacy didn't come into play in the Federalist Papers or elsewhere as the subsequent arguments dealt with the fait accompli of the constitution and how it should be implemented rather than it's influences. Otherwise there would have been some fun talk about Masonic and Deist influences.
BTW, it was Jackson who supposedly infamously said (or at least re-tweeted Gen. Sheridan) ‘The only good Indians I ever saw were dead’, honed (according to Dee Browne) into an American aphorism, ‘The only good Indian is a dead Indian’. The Cherokees called Jackson “Indian killer”; the Creek called him “Sharp Knife.” A slave owner, Jackson spoke about Native Americans as if they were an inferior group of people. “Established in the midst of a superior race,” he said of the Cherokee, “they must disappear.” You might want to look up 'Trail of Tears', as well.
Charles, when I google this, I always get information about an event, one event, where Trump sat in front of an image of Andrew Jackson. He also uttered some words about Andrew Jackson when asked. That is all.
I conclude: You where wrong that Trump talked about Andrew Jackson all the time. You have no idea, as it seems. It is sad. You seem to be filled with propaganda. I am sorry to say this. You should start to listen to various speeches of Trump, just in order to realize why this man had so much success. There is a reason for this. And it is not Andrew Jackson. Even if Trump is your enemy, you should have an appropriate picture of him. Especially then.
Concerning the Indians: See the Blog post, not here. It is another hoax. Bended history. Minor contributions yes, the big thing, no. I am sorry.
Strange how hypocritical we can be, we are the first to yell genocide at the Turks recently. And what we did to the indigenous population of North America is forgotten. We basically killed of an entire race of people. And this MF makes lite of it!
Impossible to forget the genocide of north American indigeneous as it is embellished and fed daily to our public school and university population as group think. The truth about the history of North America is much more nuanced than either side of the genocide claim admits.
If it was a genocide then it wasn't a very effective one, and the main depopulation event and destruction of indigenous culture was the 100 years between the introduction of European disease in 1500 and the British settlers starting after 1620 when they found deserted camps and fragmented warring tribes eager for alliance against neighbors. Far from the idyllic scenes being pushed on our unsuspecting young and trusting parents too busy surviving to notice.
Jeff, great point, and some things I did not consider, I think i was just trying to point out we took this country from the people who lived here before us.
Keith: I appreciate the tolerance with which you've responded to me.